A radio listener recent wrote me about an interview I did on EWTN Radio with Barbara McGuigan. I mentioned that I had been doing a teaching on dating and modesty at a Theology on Tap session. At that session I charged the men not to leave that night until they had asked a woman out on a date.

This intrigued the listener, who wanted me to expand on this just a bit and what if anything she could do to get the twenty-somethings in her family (both male and female) to start dating again. Here is something of the response I penned:

Yes, I suppose it was on EWTN Radio’s Open Line show on Valentine’s Day that you heard me. As for what to say, it is difficult. The culture of course is dismal today when it comes to meeting someone and doing something we used to call “dating.”

I was telling the young people at that Theology on Tap meeting that, back when I was in high school and college, we used to do something called “dating.”

This strange and currently little-known behavior involved a young man picking up the phone, or perhaps asking a girl in person, to go on something known as “a date.” This involved an actual activity such as the two of them having dinner together, or going to a movie together, or perhaps some other function together (as in just the two of them).

He would ask her and she would either agree to go out with him or not. If she accepted, he would actually get into his car, go to her house, and ring the doorbell. He might even meet her parents if she still lived at home. Then he would actually take her somewhere, such as to dinner, and he would spend money, his own money, on her. He was then supposed to bring her back to her own home at a reasonable time. Perhaps if it went well, she might even give him a quick kiss, and agree to see him again.

Of course I say a lot of this in jest, but what makes it strangely funny is that although most young people have heard of the dating I’m describing, many seldom experience it with any real frequency. Back when I was in high school and college, the goal was to have a date every Friday or Saturday. Frankly, very little was on T.V. on Friday nights since it was presumed that most young people would be “out on dates.”

We are living in a very strange world. At any rate, the first thing I think we can do is to tell funny stories like these. When I do so, I hope to tweak the young men into some change of behavior such that, instead of just hoping to see certain women at group functions they actually seek to court a particular woman, and even more, search for a wife.

As a priest in Washington DC, I talk with a lot of young women and am shocked that so many of these very beautiful women are seldom asked out by men. It’s just crazy! What’s wrong with young men? If I were still young and dating I’d be asking them out!

Some folks blame pornography and surmise that many men prefer fantasy to real women. Others blame the breakdown of the Church and family that used to help facilitate meeting and dating through dances and other socials. Others blame the hook-up scene (hooking-up is NOT dating) wherein men and women gather more in groups, arriving independently and “hooking-up” with whomever. Promiscuity also devastates marriage, since there is very little incentive for men to commit to marriage when they get one of its central motivators (sex) for free. And if marriage isn’t a real priority, why court a woman? And if marriage and courtship are unnecessary, why date?

Perhaps you can state other reasons. I don’t want to be unfair to men. These are complicated issues. But traditionally it was men who took the initiative and most traditional Catholic girls still feel as it that is how it should be.

But frankly, I also have to tell a lot of young women today that, like it or not, they’re going to have to take some initiative. For example, if a young woman sees a young man she would like to have ask her out, perhaps she can go right up to him and say, “It’s alright to ask me out.” or, “Ask me out you fool.” Or, “When are you going to get around to asking me to dance?”

Back when I was in school, I had several young women who wanted to signal me that they were interested. They would often send word through one of their friends who would then say something like, “She likes you, ask her out.” And in many cases, I would oblige!

My college sweetheart got things started with me that way. I was really surprised she wanted to go out with me; she was so very, very pretty, I didn’t think she’d be interested in an ordinary guy like me. I also figured she probably had lots of other suitors. So this was important information for me that she was interested, and I acted on it immediately. I practically ran up to her and asked her out.

I am interested in your thoughts, especially if you’re a young adult. What’s going on here? Ultimately I think it’s pretty serious since it is tied in with the cultural demise of marriage and also the rise of promiscuity. Help me, nearing “codger” status, to understand the causes, and also venture some solutions. .

133 Responses

  1. Jimbo says:

    Question for all: What if every parish in your Diocese had you sign up for an Email blast. Next, the parishes would take turns inviting you to events once a month – or every couple of weeks. The events themselves would need to be fun and interesting, entertaining, (wholesome) and only for those who signed up. At these events there would “Sub – events”. For instance you could sign up for the “rock climbing group” or the “sing dancing group”, etc. The events would be would be for a wide range of ages, but for singles only. Would you help organize these events? WOULD ANY OF YOU GO?

    The idea is that if you had a REGULAR event to go to, and if it was always somewhere else, you would have a better chance of meeting new people. I suppose that some don’t want to do a parish “singles group” because it is: 1. Boring 2. Always full of the same people whom you may already have ruled out?

    Maybe others have better ideas. It seems that there ought to be some better way to connect Catholic singles with each other.

  2. liz says:

    Believe it or not, I think the college/campus environment DOES have a lot to offer in terms of good dating opportunities, provided that one has chosen the right type of college. I went to a small Catholic college of little more than 3000 students. I was rather diffident as a child and teen, so I had resigned myself to the fact that I’d probably never find a boyfriend, much less a husband.
    The college I attended certainly had strong elements of the partying/drinking/hook-up culture so common among young adults that age….but there were plenty of other types of people, too. College has a way of very naturally dividing people into groups according to interests, values, priorities, etc. For one thing, there’s the variety of majors. You make different types of friends in the Philosophy Dept. than you do in the Business Dept. Then there are other organizations and clubs: you’ll meet people in the Newman Club, or a Right-to-Life Society, or Campus Ministry, or a Habitat for Humanity project, etc. etc.

    I first crossed paths with my future husband in a Philosophy class. Then I would bump into him at Mass in the campus church, at a Right-to-Life Rally, a Theology Lecture, etc. He even waited tables at a local restaurant near campus, and I’d see him there. By the time my shy husband finally asked me out, I already felt like I had a good sense of the type of guy he was. I knew he was intelligent, serious about his faith, had good values, was well-mannered, and (unlike many college guys) actually held down a part-time job, to help his parents pay for his college expenses. As shy as I was myself, I felt very comfortable going out with him.

    We had a very ‘old-fashioned’ type of romance. He took me on real dates off of campus– to museums, live theatre, historic sites, botanic gardens, hiking expeditions, you name it– and we got to know each other well both IN and OUT of the college environment. We got married six months after we graduated college.

    My advice to other young adults looking for a suitable mate: don’t try to force anything. There’s a happy medium between asking out and dating a complete stranger whom you just met, and becoming close friends with someone BEFORE you’ll even date them. Increase your community involvement– maybe do some worthwhile volunteer work, attend lectures, go to pro-life events, join/start a book club, get involved in your church beyond just attending Mass, etc. etc. You’ll meet new people and have a chance to get acquainted with them a bit first WITHOUT the pressure of romantic involvement. Then, if someone you meet catches your attention, and you still have a good impression after being around them several times, ask them out to coffee.

    My brother had trouble meeting suitable girls for years, but then he decided to leave his job and attend graduate school, to boost his credentials and get a career boost. He ended up meeting his future wife at a Newman Center event on that university campus. Statistically, one has the greatest chance of meeting a mate in that type of environment. If you can’t or won’t go back to school, though, there are other options: I know one guy who met his wife at a ballroom dancing lesson. I know a girl who met her fiancé while both were volunteering at St. Vincent de Paul. Also, I’m an RCIA instructor, and one year a guy and girl met in the program (one was a catechumen, the other a candidate), and they ended up commencing a relationship and getting married a couple years later. So, there’s really a plethora of relationship opportunities out there, if you know where to look.

  3. Luke says:

    Catarina says:
    March 17, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    “I’m a single woman in her 40′s in the DC area, and I would love to date good Catholic men! But I’ve found that many of them are unmotivated and in no hurry to get married. Most around my age would rather marry women 10-20 years younger than they are anyway. Unfortunately, I am seen as “expired goods”. I’ve tried online dating and done tons of praying. At this point I’m hoping for a miracle! Please pray for me!!”

    Hello, Catarina. Before I go on with the rest of my reply to you, note that I do genuinely wish you well. What I don’t wish well is the continuation of any illusions you may have that are preventing you from finding Godly true happiness.

    First, you sound as if you believe that you should be able to date men your own age. Uh, no, that ended around your mid-20s. The traditional rule is that a man could date “down” agewise to (1/2 his age + 7). Working backwards, if you’re a woman aged 44, you should be looking at men that are (44 – 7) X 2 years old, which is 37 X 2, or up to age 74. That may repulse you, fair enough. But, according to basic Economics, if an item isn’t selling, either or both its price needs to go down. Lower “price” could mean looking for men in their 50s or 60s, say, or at least less attractive/lower-income than you’ve previously considered acceptable.

    Higher “quality” (that needs to go up) could mean any of lose weight to your age-20 weight, get out of debt, arrange your life to have more time to spend with a man, detrash your house, lose the cats, no more female porn like romance novels/Vogue/Lifetime/Oprah, learn how to cook well (if you don’t already know how), learn a skill (bookkeeping/taxes, say) useful to a busy professional man, etc. Tops, though, would be permanently acquiring the mindset that once you’re sexual with a man (hopefully not until married) you’ll not only be faithful to him (in mind as well as actions), but would absolutely be happy to have the type and frequency of sex be what makes him happy. Note that men rarely care about a woman’s income or job status being high, if anything (accurately) seeing those as indications she’s more likely to cheat on him or leave him.

    Lastly, you could possibly do what my wife did to get me to marry her when she was in her late 40s (I’m actually slightly younger than her). She agreed that we’d make a family together, by the egg donor/IVF/gestational surrogate routine, then be a doting stay-at-home mother and homeschool them. (We have happy, healthy 20-month old twin girls.) I would not, could not (since I wanted a family, the only sufficient reason IMO for a man to marry in the U.S. now) have married her otherwise.

    People here have noted that until God comes back in people’s hearts and minds, marriage will remain in deep trouble in the U.S. I agree. However, until divorce and related laws are completely changed, the current reluctance of men to become married, and women to stay married, will continue. (Women file for >75% of divorces in the U.S. now, almost always without having proved to a court they have traditional, e.g.,real, grounds.) Presumptive father custody of children combined with ending no-fault divorce (file without cause, you leave the family house/property/children behind, taking with you only your clothes and what you brought into the marriage) are absolutely necessary. The esteemed Catholic writer Daniel Amneus (sadly deceased) wrote extensively on this in his online books “The Garbage Generation” and “The Case For Father Custody” (easily locatable online for free).

    • Elizabeth says:

      You have some strange ideas about dating, i.e., the age of men women should be looking for. So by your little calculations, I, at age 30, should be looking at men in their fifties. In other words, men my father’s age. GROSS!! No thank you! I’d rather stay single for the rest of my life than date or marry some guy who could be my father or grandfather.
      Also, just curious, but where did you come up with these calculations? It seems to me like you just made them up. And where did this “rule” come from that men can have women half their age but women have to settle for old farts and be happy about it?
      And finally, you are aware that IVF/surrogacy/egg donation is a mortal sin according to Catholic teaching, right?
      Sorry, but you have some warped ideas. Just my two cents.

      • gdgm+ says:

        Hmm, by my calculations, a 30 year old woman could target a 46 year old fellow (half of 46 is 23, add 7 to get to 30). That’s not so bad or far off… after all, how old is George Clooney now?

    • John says:

      Luke, your response to Catarina is demeaning at the outset; telling her to lose weight, etc., but more importantly, I would beg that you consult Catholic teaching on the “egg donor/IVF/gestational surrogate routine.” There are real reasons why these practices are considered immoral. Moreover, so many children out there are in need of loving, adoptive parents.

  4. RA says:

    Family law is in practice anti-male for starters. It is well known that women initiate 2/3’s of all divorces when children are present. Less than half of these women left due to one of the three A’s: abuse, addiction or affairs. The rest left because they felt like it and the culture backs them up to the hilt. Based on experiences in my circles, I’d suggest that at least half of the divorces initiated by men involve men who were pushed into it due to crap conduct by their wives.

    Dalrock’s blog is an excellent start for those who want to study the effects of family law on marriage without the prejudices so common in mainstream media. But it’s recommended to stay away from the comment section, that might be too strong for most women. Dalrock is Christian, married, a father and strongly supports marriage. But he minces no words when describing the current legal environment.

    We’re at the point where nearly every man knows a victim of family court if he has not been one himself. Men aren’t on strike as some suppose, but the picture is not a pretty one.

    Add in the feminist push for women to emphasis careers over marriage and staying at home during the years of a woman’s prime fertility and we have a rather toxic brew in that there are now a class of women who can’t find men they can look up to, be attracted to, who will marry them.

    The old advice for women still holds: lose the weight, be feminine in dress and hairstyle, be nice, be available. Go where the men are. Be prepared to find something good in every man she comes across, rather than writing off most of them as “below” her. Be open to dating and accepting proposals from older men. Only way to find a man who is up to her standards and morals is to expand the pool. And pray.

    Finally, my personal experience is that I do a lot better dating non-Catholics than Catholics. I’m that ordinary looking guy sitting a few rows away from her, but she’s not interested. Hence I have to go outside the Church to find someone who will go out with me.

  5. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Tom said he didn’t know why men don’t feel like men. The answer has been known for well over 50 years. Well, actually over 2000 years, I suppose.

    Margaret Mead reported in her ~1950 book, Male and Female, that every society must give both men and women unique tasks to affirm their sex. In all societies, women find that task by birthing and raising children.

    Men must be given an artificial task since impregnating women is not a full time job for most of us. In some societies, that has been the job of defending the society. She even told of a small tribe which had no outlet for men. They were surrounded by strong, warlike tribes, so the men couldn’t even pick up a spear to go hunting without dying. They decreed that only men could cook and women who took that job were executed.

    In our society it is a matter of Federal law that men shall have no unique task. So, it is no surprise that men don’t feel like men. Why would they?

    As far as not understanding why men are doing what they are doing, there are other factors. Starting in the mid Sixties when I got out of the Army, feminism has run this nation. No man dare criticize any woman, even one who has murdered her family, without terrible retribution falling on his head. Look what got Larry Summers fired from Harvard, and all he did was point out the obvious truth that women don’t usually like math much.

    At every point, even as major laws were changed to make marriage as unattractive to men as it can possibly ever be, men have not been allowed in the public debate. So, for nearly 50 years, change after change in the laws was made with no idea what men thought of it.

    After nearly 50 years, the most intelligent of men finally figured out that a legal marriage under current laws is a really bad idea. And, still most of you aren’t listening to men. So, when you do encounter what men think of the modern woman, and/or marriage, you think they are evil or insane.

    Every civilization has ended like this one is ending. With women raised up above God. And, the churches are the worst offenders. Including the Catholic churches.

    The Bible makes it clear that effective female submission initiates effective male leadership. Yet universally in the USA (and in fact most so-called Christian nations) it is believed that effective male leadership initiates effective female submission. Pure and total heresy. So, when a woman is rebellious against her husband, which is almost always in the USA, the wonderful pastors and priests blame the husband for her sins,

    I know a man who actually read Gibbon’s Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. He told me Gibbons said it was the Christians placing women above God which did the job, just as the Christians placing women above God is killing our once great society. I am trying to read RAFOTRE right now, and it is a very slow job. he said it is mostly in the second and third volumes.

  6. Anonymous age 71 says:

    RA recommends Dalrock, and I concur with his choice.

    Dalrock is the best blogger on marriage from the man’s viewpoint. But, he is not without flaw.

    His biggest flaw, because he does not understand calculus, though he says he does, is that he says there is no marriage strike. There certainly is a marriage strike among men.

    Here are the marriage rates for the past years:

    Number of Marriages per 1,000
    Unmarried Women Age 15 and
    Older, by Year, United States:

    1922 99 (found on Web)
    1960 73.5
    1961 72.2
    1962 71.2
    1963 73.4
    1964 74.6
    1965 75.0
    1966 75.6
    1967 76.4
    1968 79.1
    1969 80.0
    1970 76.5
    1972 77.9
    1975 66.9
    1977 63.6
    1980 61.4
    1983 59.9
    1985 56.2
    1987 55.7
    1990 54.5
    1991 54.2
    1992 53.3
    1993 52.3
    1995 50.8
    2000 46.5
    2004 39.9
    2007 39.2 (Rutgers 2009)
    2008 37.4 (Rutgers 2009)
    2009 36 (UVA 2010; project moved from Rutgers)
    2010 32.9 State of our unions data
    2011 31.1 (http://ncfmr.bgsu.edu/pdf/family_profiles/file131529.pdf)

    England is down around 18, and NZ around 28.

    The feminists and their sympathizers attempt to say men are such bums women are striking against marriage. And, they may be correct… Because after all GROOM magazine sells millions of copies each month, correct? [/sarcasm]

    And, Dalrock says, well, maybe women are delaying marriage. Which is true. They mostly do not want to marry until late 20’s or early 30’s. By that time, too many men have been rejected and rejected and in general treated horribly for over 10 years and no longer want anything to do wtih dating or American women.

    It is not men in their 30’s who complain women won’t make a commitment. Any man in that age group who wishes to marry can find a woman to marry him. Maybe not a really great woman, but a woman to marry.

  7. Concerned says:

    “At home, it is not only women and children but also fathers of families and young men who come regularly to Mass. If we were to offer them the kind of ceremony we saw yesterday we would soon be left with a congregation of women and children.”

  8. BJ says:

    Many good points here. One to add:

    Attending Sunday mass at 10:30 is sheer torture. You are surrounded by couples with children. It is the loneliest and most depressing hour of the week. Some singles I know go to mass at 7 am just to avoid the “hostile environment.”

    • John Thomas says:

      Hi BJ

      I would go one step further to the profound alienation singles feel from married society. Some people think that all singles want is sex and the opportunity to have children. In fact, though, what used to be normal adult society is still very much a couples society. Singles are relegated or self-exile to the singles ghetto, whether it is in church or anywhere. Whether you go to restaurants, movies, parties, social events, or things that should be happy family gatherings, you just feel locked out because you are single and everyone else is married or coupled up somehow. They will deny it, but the marrieds are living on a totally different planet from you. They’ve got something that you can never have. Also, if you look at the way married couples interact as opposed to singles hanging out, the dynamics are completely different. That’s while singles feel so excluded in Catholic parishes, in my opinion. It’s less an “activities for singles” kind of thing and more a sense that long-term singles are trapped in a state of arrested development they can’t escape. Singles who want to get married are on the outside looking in. They are the losers, leftovers, and rejects.

      I believe we see the alienation of singles from married society reflected in secular politics, which are increasingly anti-religion and anti-marriage. We are at a tipping point where anti-marriage and anti-family policies are increasingly driven by sexually active singles. There is no other way to explain the animosity toward traditional views of sex and marriage.

  9. BJ says:

    And of course, just going back to the basic problem: How can you possibly date in this culture if you are not prepared to have sex? It’s really hard, and Catholic ministries don’t provide much help. Theology on Tap is supposed to be about mingling and networking, but not really about marriage. It’s kind of a faux pas if you ask for a date there.

    • I Like The Church Fathers says:

      Good point. A lot of women would probably skip Theology on Tap altogether if they thought they would likely get hit on by undesirable men.

  10. Katie Love says:

    “But frankly, I also have to tell a lot of young women today that, like it or not, they’re going to have to take some initiative.”

    Not me. If a guy doesn’t have the guts to ask I’m just not interested. Porn and and like have a huge impact on testosterone as well as having an unrealistic view of women. I will reach out in friendship to anyone, but when it comes to dating I require the guy be a man.

    However, along with this personal rule I will never turn a guy down unless he gives me the creeps. Just sharing this for any guys out there. I know there are plenty of other girls like me.

    • John Thomas says:

      I think a lot of Catholic guys just get in the habit of never asking women out because there is nothing good that can possibly come of it. You need to know in advance that they are serious Catholics (almost impossible at a first meeting) and that they won’t be freaked out if you ask them. It would be nice to know if they were a little bit receptive.

      For Catholic women, the reserve is true. Every guy is a threat. So every guy gets shooed away even if he is the one in one thousand who is a serious Catholic and good husband material. How could she know?

      Indeed, she probably does freak out if a serious Catholic guy is persistent. He walks away discouraged and may never approach another woman again for months or years.

      So Catholic guys are in the habit of never asking, and Catholic women are in the habit of never waving, smiling, making eye contact, tossing their hair, or doing whatever. These habits get ingrained and aren’t easily reversed.

  11. Embrace reality says:

    “Not me. If a guy doesn’t have the guts to ask I’m just not interested.”

    First, a man waiting for a woman to give him an indicator of interest such as a little extended eye contact or smile before initiating a conversation, asking for a date does not make him gutless. Secondly, you’re not the only game in town so if other women seem interested in him and they’re attractive or more attractive why would he bother with you?

    “Porn and and like have a huge impact on testosterone as well as having an unrealistic view of women”

    If you were the expert on male sexuality you presume to be you’d know that porn use actually boost testosterone levels. Why? Is this relevant to men initiating dates or are you just on a rant? The female porn known as the romance novel brings billion$ annually. The novel “50 Shades of Grey” has sold around 1 million copies the movie not the mention the movie out soon, thats one title in an ocean of chick porn. If anyone has absurd expectations it’s women. The few young men actually interested in marriage are just hoping to find a wife who won’t be obese, easily done in most countries in the world except the US.

    “I require the guy be a man.”

    I think you’ll find men increasingly disinterested in meeting the requirement of women such as yourself. Doubt it? Try google search:
    ‘Why young men are avoiding marriage”
    “Men’s marriage strike”
    “Men going their own way”

  12. John Thomas says:

    You can’t maintain a sexual code of ethics that is at variance with 99% of society and assume that marriages just happen the way they did in the old days.

    You can’t assume that marriage is just about sex and thus inessential. The married couple is still the basic unit of society. The married couple is the smallest unit of the domestic church. Single Catholics who cant marry are social exiles in a way that is wounding both spiritually and psychologically.

    Catholic parishes where 80-90% of the married couples cohabited prior to marriage and practice contraception within their marriage are profoundly unsympathetic to single Catholics who can’t marry because they won’t do these things.

    It’s no wonder that Catholic lay society no longer plays its historical role of fostering marriages with parish communities.

  13. American Male says:

    Feminists have achieved their dream of destroying the benefits of marriage for men.

    Few men are insane enough to take on the sweeping risks of what marriage today poses for them after the benefits they used to enjoy were stripped out of it.

    Most men are not insane enough to enter into a lopsided legal agreement that can leave them ruined for life with what amounts to a competitor and you cannot shame us into doing so. It’s not going to happen.

    Have fun growing old with your ten cats.

    • Crowhill says:

      @American Male, I agree that marriage is a lopsided mess and that the laws need to be reformed — as well as our societal expectations.

      But I don’t think a man needs to be insane to enter marriage. He should go in eyes wide open and understand all the threats he will face, but it is possible to have a successful marriage — even today.

      I try to address the issue in more detail here — http://crowhill.net/blog/2013/06/why-should-a-man-marry/

  14. @FMShyanguya says:

    Eh? Date Father? That was the start of the slippery slope to women asking men out and the hook-up culture.

    I am thinking you meant courtship with a view to marriage.

  15. Carlos says:

    I have a question for Msgr. Charles Pope, but I must first place it in context: I am considering a vocation to the priesthood, but I like this girl. She is a non-denominational Christian, but is a devout Christian. I’m 19 and am wondering if it would okay if I asked her out on a date?? Just thinking over asking her out makes me smile. Thank you!

  16. Embrace reality says:

    “I don’t think a man needs to be insane to enter marriage.”

    I don’t think you fellas of the older generations quite understand what a man, any man, is facing when he marries in western society. Things have changed, women’s attitudes, the laws. “Insane” may seem a little strong but I’m not so sure it is. Let go over the basic facts and you can do your own research to prove them.

    The divorce rate hovers around 50%, even churches are filling up with divorced people.
    *Nearly 70% of divorces are initiated by the wives*, not for infidelity or abuse in the majority but for unbiblical reasons like dissatisfaction, unhappiness.
    Wives/mothers are given primary custody of children almost automatically and the husband/father is legally reduced to a visitor in the lives of his own children (visitation).
    Husbands/fathers are forced to leave their own home.
    Husbands/fathers pay 97% of alimony and child support.
    Thanks to No Fault divorce all of this happens literally at the whim of a dissatisfied wife.

    Understand! Any man who marries does so under circumstances where his wife has nearly ALL the legal power and authority over his children, home, assets and earnings. If you’re contemplating marriage you’ll be trusting a woman’s character and integrity infinitely more than she will ever have to trust yours, she can use the law to break you in half on a whim. Can anyone reference a scripture that teaches women, by virtue of being born female, are morally superior to men? No, you cannot. Why then is the law and the church under the impression that they are?

  17. Luke says:

    John, I am not the above poster’s friend. I am far more interested in useful truth than I am in preserving someone’s feelings of the moment by telling them a lie.
    The truth is that if something does not sell at its current price and quality, either its price needs to drop, or its quality needs to rise. It’s first-year Economics.

    On the RCC being against donor eggs, IVF, gestational surrogacy, and such, I am not Catholic (though am fully Christian, with my Protestant church’s sacrements and rite completely valid). Besides, the ova and sperm used would have died otherwise, and instead resulted in two loved, wanted, fully healthy babies being raised by my wife and me. (They’ll never have their minds poisoned by public schools, being homeschooled instead, as the Founding Fathers were.) That’s hard to see as a bad thing.

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