Candidate Rick Santorum was grilled on Face the Nation by Bob Schieffer on his position that certain forms of pre-natal testing end up as conduits for abortion. In particular, Mr Santorum is concerned about amniocentesis, a test used to screen for fetal chromosomal abnormalities and certain infections. The procedure is not without its dangers. Complications of amniocentesis include miscarriage, respiratory distress at delivery, postural deformities, fetal trauma and rhesus disease. Studies estimate the risk of amniocentesis-related miscarriage at around 1 in 200.
Rick Santorum is right to raise serious concerns about this procedure and the fact that the government is going to force insurers to pay for this. Free amniocentesis means more of it and more of it, frankly, means more abortions.
This does not mean there is absolutely no legitimate use of amniocentesis. Indeed it can be argued that if there is a problem, it is best to know beforehand. However, for one to legitimately have recourse to amniocentesis, it is necessary that they exclude abortion, no matter the results. They must also understand there are risks involved with amniocentesis and, further, that they will likely be pressured to terminate a child with a poor diagnosis.
A hidden but tragic truth in this country is that there is a quiet sort of genocide being committed against the disabled. Mr. Santorum is right in pointing out that the rates of abortion in poor prenatal diagnoses trends as high as 90-100%. Indeed if the test come back “poor,” abortion is almost always recommended.
And, the pressure on such families to abort is often enormous. They are told, “It is the right thing to do” and, “You should not make the child suffer.” Some are even made to feel they are doing something “unethical” by bringing forth such children. There are also time pressures placed on such parents. Doctors often want the decision to terminate, made quickly, within a matter of days.
A life not worth living? There seems to be operative a notion on the part of many in our culture that there is such a thing as a life not worth living. We have stumbled upon the very unusual and tragically ironic concept that death is a form of therapy, that the “treatment” for disabled babies is to kill them. Of course death is not a treatment or a therapy, it cannot be considered a “solution” for the one who loses his or her life. Yet tragically this is often the advice that many parents with a poor pre-natal diagnosis receive, the urgent pressure that they terminate the pregnancy now.
90 % are lost – All this pressure goes a long way to explain that just over 90% of families with a poor pre-natal diagnosis choose to abort. We in the Church cannot remain silent in the face of this. We must prophetically and compassionately reach out to families in such a crisis. Many of them are devastated by the news that their baby may have serious disabilities. Often they descend into shock and are overwhelmed by fear, conflicting feelings and even anger at God, or others. Sometimes the greatest gifts we can give them are time, information, and the framework of faith. Simply considering some of the following may help:
1. They do not have to rush, despite what they are told. Serious life-changing decisions should never have to be made in a 48 to 72 hour time period. Pressure should never be applied to families by medical personnel and the family should consider such pressure a grave injustice.
2. Pre-natal diagnoses are not always right. We often think of Medicine as an exact science. It is not. Data can be misinterpreted and premises can sometimes be wrong. Further, there is a difference between the result of a screening and an actual diagnosis. Screenings can point to potential problems and likelihoods, but are not an actual diagnosis of a problem. Further study is always needed if a screening indicates potential problems. Quite frequently, further tests, after a screening reveal no problem at all.
3. Disabilities are not always as terrible a reality as we, in our “perfect-insistent” world, think. Many people with disabilities live very full lives and are a tremendous gift to their families, the Church and the world. Providing families with further information about disabilities and connecting them with families who have experience in these areas are essential to avoid the catastrophizing that sometimes sets in when an adverse pre-natal diagnosis is given.
4. For those with faith it is essential to connect them with the most basic truths of our Christian faith. The cross is an absurdity to the world. But to those of the Christian faith, the cross brings life and blessings, even despite its pain. Where it not for our crosses, most of us could never be saved. Bringing forth a disabled child will not be easy but God never fails. He can make a way out of no way and do anything, but fail. My own sister was mentally ill and she carried a cross. We too had a share in that cross. But my sister, Mary Anne, brought blessings to our family as well. I don’t know if I’d be a priest today if it were not for her. I am sure I would not be as compassionate and I doubt I could be saved were it not for the important lessons she taught me. I know she brought out strength and mercy, not to mention humility, from all of us in the family. Her cross and ours brought grace, strength and many personal gifts to all of us. Yes, the cross is painful, but it brings life as well. Easter Sunday is not possible without Good Friday. To the world the cross is absurdity but to us who believe it is salvation, it is life, it is our only real hope, it is our truest glory to carry it as Christ did.
5. Disability is not an all-or-nothing thing. Disability exists on a continuum. In some way all of us are disabled. Some of us have very serious weight problems, others diabetes, pressure, heart problems, etc. Some of us are intellectually challenged in certain areas. Some of us struggle with anxiety or depression, addictions, or compulsions. Some experience losses in mobility through an accident or just due to age. All of us have abilities and disabilities. Some of our disabilities are more visible than others, some disabilities are more serious than others. But in most cases we are able to adjust to what disables us and still live reasonably full lives. We may not be able to do all we would like, but life still has blessings for us. And even our weaknesses and disabilities can, and do, bring us blessings by helping to keep us humble. How much disability is too much? Can you really be the judge of that? Can you or I really decide for someone else that their life is not worth living?
6. Life is not usually what it seems. In this world we esteem things like wealth, ability, strength and power. But God is not all that impressed by these sorts of things. God has a special place for the poor and the humble. The Lord has said that many who are last in this life are going to be first in the next (cf Mat 19:30). There is a great reversal coming wherein the mighty are cast down and the lowly are raised up. In this world we may look upon those who suffer disability with a misplaced pity. But understand this: they are going to be the exalted ones in the kingdom of heaven. As we accept the disabled and the needy into our midst we are accepting those who will be the royalty in heaven. We ought to learn to look up to them, beg their prayers and only hope that their coattails may also help us attain to some of the glory they will specially enjoy. They have a dignity that this world may refuse to see but we who believe cannot fail to remember that the last are going to be the first. Life is not always what it seems.
What of those who aborted? We as a Church cannot avoid our responsibility to prophetically declare the dignity and worth of the disabled. More than ever our world needs the Church’s testimony, for it is a startling statistic that 90% of parents choose to abort in cases of a poor pre-natal diagnosis. Even as we prophetically witness to dignity of the disabled and the wrongness of abortion in these cases we must also embrace those who have chosen abortion and now struggle with that choice. We are called to reconcile and bring healing to all who have faced this crisis and fallen. Many were pressured, afraid and felt alone. We offer this embrace through confession, and healing ministries like Project Rachael which offers counseling, spiritual direction, support groups and prayer services. Even as the Church is prophetic in speaking against abortion she must also reconcile those who have fallen under the weight of these heavy issues.
For more information:
- National Catholic Partnership on Disability
- Project Rachel – Post Abortion Healing
- Be Not Afraid – an online outreach to parents who have received a poor or difficult prenatal diagnosis
- Parental Partners for Life – Support information & encouragement for carrying to term with an adverse prenatal diagnosis and support for raising your child with special needs after birth
Here is Mr. Santorum’s interview on the topic of amniocentesis. I think he raises very legitimate concerns:
This video was produced by the Office of Special Needs and the Life Issues Department for the Youth Rally and Mass for Life, held at the Verizon Center in Washington, DC on January 22, 2010. It shares the story of Maddie, who reminds us of the dignity and joy that can be found in every human life
Bob Schieffer is a left wing political hack posing as a journalist. He clearly did no research into the topics he raised with Rick, in an effort to understand (even if he disagreed) what Rick was talking about. Instead, right out of the box, he reads from his left wing talking points memo, and attempts to label Santorum as a paternalistic brood from the dark ages, and hater of women’s “right to prenatal care.” Rick acquitted himself well!
We as a people have a lot to answer for.
“Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!” If we shall suppose that American Slavery** is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope — fervently do we pray — that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said “the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether.”
– Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address on March 4, 1865
**substitute abortion, eugenics, euthanasia, and/or other attacks on life, as is appropriate
You’re off on this judgment thing….where does that come from? To say that it is wrong to abort children who are disabled is to judge the sin, not the sinner. I think I go at some length to show understanding in the article about families that are in a crisis and how we must help them. And, if you read to the end the article also discusses what to do to help families who have aborted, find healing. There is no doubt that disability is difficult. But what is right and wrong in terms of abortion remains clear.
And then, you turn, at least by your definition of judgment, and judge the Church. And even IF all your charges are true (they are not) where’s all your poetry us “ALL” falling short of the glory of God. What are the 3 fingers pointing back at you Lori?
The severity is in you and you are projecting it on others. Take some of your own medicine. For heaven’s sake….
Thank you for a reasoned and compassionate response to the raging and often irrational debate in cyberspace, Monsignor. I have been blessed with a daughter with Down syndrome and so I know that what you are saying is true. I especially liked this reflection;
“All of us have abilities and disabilities. Some of our disabilities are more visible than others, some disabilities are more serious than others. But in most cases we are able to adjust to what disables us and still live reasonably full lives. We may not be able to do all we would like, but life still has blessings for us. And even our weaknesses and disabilities can, and do, bring us blessings by helping to keep us humble.”
Rick humbly added his own reflection to his opinions about prenatal testing that God considers him more disabled than Bella, who can only love.
Americans are the richest nation on the earth with the most advanced healthcare, so naturally we assume that all suffering can be eliminated. But that would not be the best for us, we all need to learn to depend upon others and be vulnerable before the Lord. Remember the old song by Barbra Streisand, “People who need people are the luckiest people in the world”?
I learned from my daughter with Down syndrome to stop and smile at others, to notice the flowers blooming at my feet and the feel of my feet on the grass. I learned how to rely on others and on God whom I can’t see when my mother lay dying of cancer.
I need my daughter, and she needs me and her doting daddy. I wish this love for mothers whom the culture has convinced that a child like Christina would ruin their lives.
Here is another fine article on the value of the disabled: http://oldarchive.godspy.com/reviews/Things-Catholic-Even-Our-Virtues-Must-Be-Burned-Away-by-Jennifer-Ferrara.cfm.html.
The loss of the disabled is indeed horrifying, the challenge to the families of the disabled is tremendous, and I hope that we Catholics and the larger culture continue to work to support the disabled and their families.
I must admit, though, that I am confused about Mr. Santorum’s position on the issue and his statistics. See this article, admittedly written by a supporter of abortion for a liberal publication, to see in part what I mean: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2012/02/rick_santorum_s_partial_birth_abortion_lie_did_obama_target_the_disabled_.html.
So much of what this administration does feeds into a eugenic mentality. At one point in time I thought it was paranoia to think eugenics was alive today. But after witnessing so many attempts to restrict procreation among low-income people, the targeting of ethnic minorities by the abortion industry, and now these startling statistics about aborting the disabled, I don’t know how anyone could deny the mentality the Church is up against. It is demonic.
We should always pray for the mothers of the aborted children that they may find peace. Surely God has a way where they will be reconciled with their children in heaven however that mystery may be played out. We leave everything in the all-knowing hands of God.
“Free amniocentesis means more of it and more of it, frankly, means more abortions.”
With this rationale, one may also conclude that with any “free” medical care will imply more abortions. Hence, there can be no rational discussion about what is free or medical procedures and their purposes.
No, your logic is silly. If I go to get medicine for strep throat there’s absolutely no relationship to the question of abortion. Amniocentesis however, is directly related to the question of abortion and is used most commonly to determine that very course of action. Further, I do not argue that amniocentesis can never be used. I argue only that if one has recourse to it, that abortion be excluded no matter the results.
Please, don’t blame me for your silly logic. I understand your desire to control other’s medical care but are you really qualified to make such decisions?
Gosh, how Childish. You obviously didn’t read the article. In the end I am not trying to control your medical decision. I, along with Mr Santorum, and as is CLEARLY stated, am asking why we are being require to pay for services that to us are morally questionable at best. The control is from your side, not mine. It is the govt that has the power, not me or the Church. You can be glib here Patton, but they’re coming for you next.
Amnios generally come after another test has found an issue. The test allows families to know & to prepare for a child that may have special needs or more importantly can allow families to treat some problems in-utero, preventing a life of disability. It is irrational to suggest that we should get rid of something that can SAVE lives. This just goes to show how reactionary everyone is about prenatal care. I have known 8 women in my close personal life – none religious – all had amnios, three with seriously bad outcomes – non aborted their babies because their personal moral code – of a non-religious nature – kept them from taking their child’s life. One carried her baby to term knowing it would die on the day it was born – which did happen. It is so reactionary and ignorant to blame a test for peoples poor choices or to insinuate that its okay to even imply that amnios are cause of abortion…but its okay to force women to have a ultrasounds. So, its okay to hear a heartbeat, but not to know that the heart is defective & could be fixed before birth. Irrational.
Did you even read my post? You seem completely unaware of what was said there to wit:
This does not mean there is absolutely no legitimate use of amniocentesis. Indeed it can be argued that if there is a problem, it is best to know beforehand. However, for one to legitimately have recourse to amniocentesis, it is necessary that they exclude abortion, no matter the results. They must also understand there are risks involved with amniocentesis and, further, that they will likely be pressured to terminate a child with a poor diagnosis.
Reactionary and ignorant? Irrational? Physician heal thyself.
Also I mentioned nothing about ultrasounds. Take heed of your own reactionary pro-choice rhetoric.
I won’t make any comment about Mr. Santorum’s suitability for the Presidential office – I am delighted, however, to hear him raise ethical issues that intersect with the dignity of life. Of course he will be derided by those who view the world through a different prism – in which individual freedome trumps everything.
I have heard several commentators (you know, the “gasbags” on cable TV who tell us all what to think…) respond that this election is to be about the economy/jobs/wealth. It’s almost as if they want to believe that there are no core philosophical issues any more – we’re all on board the “liberal” train. It is our role, as the body of Christ, always to keep those core issues front and centre.
Well Lori, I think you hit the nail on the head with a few points. It is probably one of those “human condition” things that we are all prone to make judgments about what other people do. And judgement of the person should reside with God. But I do think abortion is objectively wrong. At the same time, I believe all of society is affected by abortion. How many siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc, will we never meet in this life because of abortion? Another point I’d like to make is that when people act on fear, often permanent choices are made when the problems are temporary. I’ve known many people who have been profoundly impacted by a person with disabilities. I think they would say life without their disabled sister, friend, aunt would not have been the same or as joyful. Costs are higher in terms of caring for the disabled in terms of emotions and money- no doubt about that. But aren’t some of the greatest successes in life born of great obstacles and sacrifice? I’ve never heard anybody who climbed Mt. Everest without effort or did not take great pride in the huge difficulties overcome. I agree the Catholic Church has done some pretty cruddy things in its 2000 years. Unfortunately, I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my 27 yrs of existence. But, I’d like to think I’ve learned some lessons, learned lessons from the things other people have done, and that I am becoming a better person. But can I still say some things are objectively wrong? Yes. I’m a Catholic. I did not burn people at the stake for reading the bible. Would that be a wrong thing to do? You betcha! But just as much as I want God to forgive me for what I have done wrong, I have to forgive others for the things they have done wrong to me and to society in general. On behalf of the Catholic Church, I am sincerely sorry for any and all wrongs we have ever done to you, your family, or loved ones. I hope you can see that the Catholic Church is always trying to improve, with God’s grace, and that we truly want salvation for all people. Since you point out some very serious concerns, maybe you could consider joining us. I’d rather work together to build up the Kingdom, than against each other. God bless you!
There is also a great ministry in our Archdiocese that walks with women in these difficult situations. It is called Isaiah’s Promise and information can be found here: http://www.isaiahspromise.net/. One of the founders also wrote a book called For The Love of Angela recounting her own experience. http://www.amazon.com/Love-Angela-Nancy-Mayer-Whittington/dp/0976228475
During one of my pregnancies, a screening test came back high risk for Down’s Syndrome. We decided to have an amniocentesis so we could be prepared to give proper care to our baby if that was the case. At that time I was not Christian and although I knew I could never have an abortion, I believed that women should have the right to choose. I was disturbed to later find out that the amnio itself carried a risk for miscarriage. No one mentioned or explained to me that I could lose my child. Even though the risk is low, I would not have opted to have the amnio. Thank God, all went well and my child did not have Down’s. Furthermore, it took weeks after my amnio to get the results. I was shocked to see how far along I was – I could already feel the baby moving around. To realize that I would still be offered an abortion made me ill. It was at that moment that I became completely and totally prolife.
Great article as usual Msgr. Pope. This is definitely an important issue that is not getting enough attention in the mainstream media. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
I agree with Jeff. I don’t want to go further away from the issue but from all the problems that is besetting us, one thing is needed and that is we must go back to basics. Jos 1:8 & 1 King 2:3 have the same advice. If we follow the laws of the Lord, we will succeed in all our undertakings.
I was diagnosed last year with a retinal degenerative disease that typically leaves it sufferers legally blind. That’s not a prospect that pleases me, but it’s not enough to make me wish I were dead. Yet it occurs to me that if there were a prenatal test for this condition, many mothers would choose to abort their babies rather than face them going blind. That realization has made the question of aborting potentially disabled babies very personal for me.
16 years ago a triple screen for our second child came back with an AFP value 4 multiples of the median (insanely high) which certainly meant that my child would have anencephaly (born without a skull) which is of course lethal within hours of birth. An amniocentesis was recommended next. I declined stating the increased risk of miscarriage among other issues, and, being a physician myself, then firmly told everyone we’d be performing serial ultrasounds so at least my husband and I could prepare ourselves for whatever the Lord gave us. I am the proud mother of a tremendously talented high school freshman who is an honor student and lettered in Cross Country among many other things this year.
All tests have limits and all tests can predict a false positive or a false negative. Had I aborted my normal child, not an option for me but one that was being suggested already by my obstetrician, the world would have been a poorer place. As it was, I found myself in a position to witness and teach about the dignity and beautiful gift of life for many months just by standing firm for life under any circumstances.
In Christ-
Thank you Msgr Pope for this post, and thank you Dr. Laura, for your witness. I agree with everything you said, and think that one of the most frightening things currently going on is that within medicine some of our colleagues have decided they know enough to be the arbiters of who should be born and who should not, whose life has value and whose does not, and much of this hubris is embedded in Obamacare. We are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Can anyone in their right mind think that in our current moral and political climate that complete power over health care should be given to any empowered elite, including those running the federal government ?
Currently Senator Santorum is being attacked relentlessly in an effort to portray him as a religious kook. In fact this is not only coming from the usual suspects on the political left, it is coming from those within the Republican party who dislike people who actually mean it when they say they are pro-life. I would judge the intensity of the attacks as directly proportional to how seriously Santorum takes his Catholicism. I was a resident in Pennsylvania while he was a Senator, and I can say three things about him, He is a genuinely decent man, if you called his office someone from that office called you back. He is a full spectrum Catholic politician, he pushed for relief of third world debt, support for AIDs therapy in Africa and other things that are consistent with the duty to care for the poor. Third he is knowledgeable, listen to him speak, he does not use notes and he knows policy. While Senator he was Chairmen of the Republican Senatorial Conference You may not agree with him on every issue but he is a good man, he is competent and will take the faith seriously when acting as a public servant. He is being attacked currently precisely on the grounds that he is in essence “too Catholic”. For these reasons alone I would urge everyone serious about seeing a really Catholic public servant in office to support him. There are enough of us, that if we band together we can help put a stop to the social decay.
In fact this is not only coming from the usual suspects on the political left, it is coming from those within the Republican party who dislike people who actually mean it when they say they are pro-life
At the same time, there have long been efforts to smear the bishops as being shills for the Republican Party (this despite the fact that the bishops’ conference has long been recognized as “the Democratic Party at prayer”).
But the fact is, to judge from much of the commentary being spewed out there now (and before, albeit more quietly), the Republican Party has its share of anti-Catholic bigots too.
Reply to Patrick,
The problem with statistics is they can be used like TV news sound bites; taken cleverly out of context to sway opinion. The problem with the Abortion Industry is that it is severely underregulated. There is little “evidence based” medicine happening there. I think Mr. Santorum, like most of us, and especially like our present president, might occasionally get his stats wrong, and even possibly take them out of context a bit to get a point across or sway opinion; he is a politician. But matching character to character there is no comparison. Mr. Obama does not honor life in the womb, period. I cannot vote for a pro abortion president, period.
Please note that some of the stats you’ve used are incorrect, at least in context. The study showing miscarriage rates after amniocentesis at 1 of 200 was published in the 1970s. In 2006 a new study shows that after advances, the miscarriage rate is now 1 of 1,600. I.e. there was a 0.5% chance of miscarriage according to the 1970s study, and new studies show a 0.06% chance. You have a much greater chance of dying by a gunshot, in a car accident, by fire, even simply by falling down – than a woman has of miscarrying because of an amniocentesis.
The 90% statistic is also problematic. Of the thousands of amnios performed each year, 97% come back with normal results. Only 3% indicate any sort of problem. There is a huge range of problems tested for via amnio, Downs Syndrome is only one of them. It is correct that Downs Syndrome diagnoses result in abortion at least 90% of the time, and that is heartbreaking. Yet – Downs Syndrome is not even as common of a diagnosis via amnio, as are treatable conditions like spina bifida, Rh blood incompatibility, various infections. So you’re talking about a fraction of a percent being Downs Syndrome diagnoses, and of THOSE, 90% are aborted.
Abortion is harmful, but so is misinformation, especially when it can impact testing (and the funding of testing) that actually saves many more lives than it ends. Please take more care with what you set forth as fact.
There is no reason to do any prenatal testing, with the exception of the twenty-week ultrasound, other than to see if you want to abort.
The whole schtick that “It’s good to know so we can prepare” is nonsense.
Amniocentesis can alert parents and doctors to conditions that are treatable known in time. If not known in time, some conditions only lead to death for the baby. That is certainly a reason besides abortion to have prenatal testing.
It was not a schtick when I had an amniocentesis. Because of what was seen on a sonogram, and because I have a family history of a specific genetic condition, I had an amniocentesis. I had no intention of aborting no matter the result, but the diagnosis would help us plan for the right type of birth as well as for life with a severely handicapped and mentally retarded child who would not live long. If my child did have the genetic problem we were concerned about, a natural birth would have killed or severely injured both of us. I don’t say that lightly, I think our country has stigmatized birth as something unnatural and to be feared and the truth is that most women can birth the babies they grow. That would not have been the case – birthing a child with this condition would likely kill or injury me and the baby, as it has done for many others including those in my family. As I already noted, this would not have convinced me to abort – it would have let me know I need to give birth via c-section.
Our amnio results came back showing that the genetic disorder we were concerned about was NOT present, and it helped our doctors pinpoint the health issues my son did/does have. Because we were able to have the amniocentesis, the second half of my pregnancy was NOT filled with grief and terror of the unknown. Because we were able to have the amniocentesis, we were prepared in the hospital for my son to be tested immediately after birth and then treated for his health issues.
If you really think that preparation for life with a disabled child is a schtick, I suggest you speak to more parents of disabled children, especially those who didn’t know their child would be disabled until it was born. Ask them about their shock and grief at birth and how it may have complicated a time that is already a hormonal and physical roller coaster for many. Ask them how long it took them to be set up with the medical, physical therapy and spiritual resources that they needed to care for their child. Ask them what financial costs they incurred that could have been avoided if they’d had months to prepare.
I’d also suggest you try to find some compassion for people in difficult and terrifying circumstances who feel as though life’s rug has been pulled out from under them.
Our daughter is adopted from Korea. She is considered special needs. We knew that at the time of referral. Although they did not totally grasp what was wrong with her, it was serious enough that after 8 months of waiting for her to arrive, they put a hold on the adoption. They told us they wold find another healthy baby for us. We told them , “no, send her”. To us it would have been like having an abortion just because she was not “perfect”. She is now a 21 year old college student and the joy of our lives. I can not imagine life without her. She is a wonderful and very good young lady; She is loved by everyone she has ever met. All life has value!
This response took a while until it seemed to wake me up last night during the quiet hours after midnight. How about; Matthew 25:31-46? Especially verses 40-46. I admit that some may see it as a stretch, especially since those who received the harsh, negative, judgement were in a “sin of omission” but, wouldn’t an active sin be more out of order than a passive and with holding sin?
But, taking a chance that when the least of the fetuses are removed (like – toss it back and put the line back into the water for a better one?) one also rejects Jesus? Not a risk I’d care to encounter.
Also, in the great reversal; http://blog.adw.org/2011/06/and-many-who-are-last-shall-be-first-pondering-the-great-reversal/ http://blog.adw.org/2011/09/completely-upside-down-and-inside-out-a-meditation-on-how-gods-thoughts-are-not-our-thoughts/ there seems to be a mention of those who educators sometimes call late bloomers. Just because these appear to bloom after the physical and into the spiritual, which conceptual paupers seem to discredit, is no excuse to seek to exclude them.
So much going on in faith, spirituality, ethics, etc. that I am reminded of several of my mentors (when I was a child) who had visited China prior to WWII and who told me that, “may you live in interesting times” was used a sort of a curse there at the time.
Topics going by and I don’t have a staff but, maybe I could be getting a little over pride oriented to think I need one. At any rate, in a – not so timely manner – about birht defects and all the other things that amniocentesis and the sweeping away of young lives in seeking to avoid a medical problem, or a series of medical problems.
Medical science, overall, has a broad mandate to, not only treat and prevent, but also to research toward better health care in the future. If a certain groupings of illnesses are euthanized into oblivion along with those who are ill (ie birht and pregnancy problems) then the cause, which could be bringing about unknown problems elsewhere, can be ignored as we cull out less perfect than acceptable fellow humans – sort of like pulling un-pretty fruits off an assembly line and throwing those fruits into a swill chopper/maker machine.
Dodging responsability to do their research?
As for this several weeks after the fact thing. Analyzed heavily INTP Personality and running gradually on numerous topics.
funny how santorum uses names like jesus and satan to fear the masess into consenting to commit horrible deeds like going to war with a country that never ever will be a threat to the us.that’s how low santorum sees the americans, children who need to be read scary fairy tales of muslim boogeymen that would make them accede to giving up their sanity and their morality for this money whore’s sick viewpoint. santorum laughs at these people who believe in his garbage. if you vote for this thing, then he is justified into screwing you over a million times. it’s like you inviting a vampire into your home. you suffer and get screwed by your own consent if you vote for this creature.